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ninja-knox-ur-sox-off · 6 months ago

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Alright, I’ve been sitting on this for a while and I think i’ve managed to sort out my thoughts so it’s not just agonized internal screaming. Time to finally talk about Monkie Kid Season 5.

Quick Disclaimers before we get started: please keep in mind i’m probably gonna be a little negative here. I’m not going after the animators or the writers or anything of the sort, I just need to get this out and slapping it on my blog just makes sense so people have the option to ignore it. Yes, I’m still grateful we still have the show, yes I’m still happy we have the same VA’s, don’t come at me. I’m not gonna get too salty cause I’ve gotten most of that out methinks and too much salt is bad for ya health, but I still do wanna talk about it and I’m still gonna be at least a little salty. If you’re not interested in hearing anything negative about the future of season five please don’t feel obligated to read. And please DO NOT take this as an invitation to bash on the new studio or anyone else in the replies, I really don’t wanna see that, go make your own post if you want to do that. I’m going to keep it under the cut so it’s easy to scroll past.

Welp, if you’re here to read, buckle up and here we go!

To start off, let's get the big personal bias thing out of the way: I strongly dislike puppet animation.

I say ‘strongly dislike’ and not hate because, while I hate most puppet animation, there is Bluey which is the best puppet animation can offer. I didn’t even know it was puppet animation for a while because of how beautifully it’s animated, so, puppet animation does have potential, I’m not gonna deny that. However, I hate that it is always used to replace 2D animation. It’s the cheaper, faster option and I can’t even begin to count the amount of shows that have started off with the plans for being 2D before being ultimately scrapped in favor of either puppet animation or 3D. Monkie Kid was the outlier in all that for me. It was 2D and it felt right. It was gorgeous and good for my brain to look at, it made me excited for animation and for art. It really was so incredibly special to me in a way it just can’t be anymore without Flying Bark’s animation. I probably won’t stop watching but, because of my dislike of puppet animation, it might be a bit of a struggle to get my brain to focus on it the way it used to, (we’ll see.) Absolutely no shade to Wildbrain (the new animation studio) they have worked miracles in the short time that they’ve had, they’ve managed to very closely replicate the style of monkie kid, and they are excellent at what they do, but when things are rushed (LEGO, [derogatory]) it makes it very hard to maintain a high standard, especially when we have something like Flying Bark’s animation to compare it to. And listen, please don’t tell me it looks similar to Flying Bark’s animation, please don’t send me shots and tell me but look how close it is! This one’s gorgeous! Because, at least to me… it’s not.

I’m the kind of person who sits in a room and I see a picture is crooked while no one else in the room notices. It could be off by centimeters but I still notice. It hurts my brain to look at and I go a bit insane until I can get up and straighten it, which usually makes people laugh and honestly yeah it’s kinda funny, but I really can’t stand things looking off, and, despite Wildbrain’s valiant attempt and excellent replication of the style, everything in the trailer we got looks off to me. From the framing, to the animation, to the design of the new characters; from the perspective to the coloring, everything is off and my ‘PLEASE LET ME STRAIGHTEN THE PICTURE’ brain hurts looking at it. I’m not trying to rag on the animation, I know they’re doing their best. Off things just hurt my brain to look at.

That’s why I loved Flying Bark’s animation so much. From Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Monkie Kid to Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, Flying Bark’s animation has scratched that itch in my brain that has desperately wanted things to look right. Everything is just so shaped!!! AAA!!!

Now, there are episodes of monkie kid that I’m not as big of a fan of. Impossible Delivery is one of them. I’m not a fan of how some scenes are drawn in it, so I tend to avoid it a lot. And that was done by Flying Bark so, this new animation for Monkie Kid is really doing a number on me.

…that being said: I still aint’ about that ‘flying bark started out awkward too’

Once again, ABSOLUTELY NO SHADE TO WILDBRAIN, (or anyone who’s said this at any point, I ain’t coming for your kneecaps,) they have done a SPECTACULAR job replicating Flying Bark’s style in the time that they have and I’m sure LEGO has been putting them through the wringer and rushing them through stuff (which I’ll complain about in a minute) but that’s the thing… They replicated Flying Bark’s Style. Style and animation are two completely separate things. This same drama was used by critics to bash the crap out of ROTTMNT when it first came out; they kept saying the animation was ugly, but it wasn’t, the animation was gorgeous, it was the style that they disliked because, most shows right now start off clunky and a little ugly and that’s just how it is. (Also the promotional material for Rise dragged it through the mud. I will always be salty about that.)

The pilot of monkie kid’s style wasn't all the way there, I’m not gonna deny that. The crew at flying bark were still figuring things out how to draw lego, BUT. The perspective, the framing, and the animation were all on point and just as gorgeous as the rest of the series. When I hear the argument that Flying Bark wasn’t great at first either it makes me want to tear my hair out because it WAS great. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY GREAT, FROM THE BEGINNING, THEIR ANIMATION HAS BEEN GORGEOUS IN MONKIE KID SINCE DAY ONE. The style is what was off. With this new animation we have the opposite experience. Instead of an awkward style with a god tier animation, we have a pretty excellent replication of a good style with an animation form I personally am not a very big fan of. It’s jarring. And even though I’m sure wildbrain will indeed get into their own groove, it will likely never be as earth shattering as Flying Bark because Flying Bark is Flying Bark and what they did was possible because of 2D.

Onto yelling at lego here we go: 'Be grateful it wasn’t canceled'

I’ma be real, this one bugs me the most.

The animation industry right now sucks. There’s no denying it. We have incredible artists left and right being messed over by studios and companies, entirely completed series being deleted, artists being ripped off, overworked and underpaid, outsourcing in every way they can, the disrespect of A/I, and 2D animation especially being dragged through the mud, even with groundbreaking 2D+3D movies like Spider-Verse and award winning movies like The Boy and the Heron, proving 2D is far from dead. Shows are being canceled before their second or third seasons, ideas are being recycled, so many people have watched their favorite things end too soon, and I’m one of them. Bro I was into DRAGON BOOSTER as a kid. Do you know that show? Probably not. It was canceled after one season YEARS ago and ended on a cliffhanger that makes me hurt to this day and I was a kid back then. (Incredible show btw you should give it a watch.) This cancellation thing isn’t new. I got on board with Rise only to see it sniped because Nickelodeon is stupid. Legend of Korra got messed over by Nickelodeon too. I have experienced cancellation/rushed endings before and it sucks. And it fills me with rage to see the bar is so low, that we should all just be okay with what happened because ‘at least it wasn’t canceled.’ I’m not mad at the people saying this, I’m just upset that this is what the reality of animation is. Heck I'm allowed to be upset about it.

And, let’s be real for a second here… Monkie Kid is LEGO’s product for China. It’s making them money. Canceling monkie kid would be shooti ng themselves in the foot more than anything else. LEGO is not hurting for money. Ninjago ran for FIFTEEN seasons and is still running today in this soft-reboot with even better animation than before. LEGO has the means. They don’t need to rush animators to finish things or underpay people. Flying Bark is in big demand right now because more and more people are noticing how good their stuff is. I’m willing to bet their schedule is packed, (they’re working on the ATLA movie which I have mixed emotions about but at least the animation’s gonna be BANGER and last I heard a stranger things animated series??) and when you’re in that high of demand you have to raise your prices, that’s just how that works. But even with that, given enough patience, time, and proper pay, I have no doubt they could have done Monkie Kid as well. We know Lego was pushing them way too hard to animate Monkie Kid and that animation is INSANE and not cheap. LEGO can afford that. But they decided it wasn’t worth that.

Okay don’t quote me on that last bit. I really didn’t want to start going off about conspiracy theories but I admit I get really frustrated when I hear the ‘at least it wasn’t canceled’ thing because I know there’s more going on behind the scenes, people just aren’t transparent about it. Studios and companies right now don’t really care about the quality of things, it’s the artists and the writers and the creators that care about the quality. There are other 2D studios out there but LEGO chose to go with puppet animation because it's faster and cheaper. I am always going to be upset about that. Am I grateful Monkie Kid wasn’t canceled? Sure. But at the same time I don’t want to feel grateful for the bare minimum. I’m angry at the state of the animation industry that no one in the higher-ups of these industries seem to respect 2D animators or 2D animation in general, that no one seems to understand how much skill it takes to animate and how worth investing in it is. And seeing people tell others upset by this that they should be grateful they have anything at all just rubs me the wrong way.

And the audacity to change the animation is ridiculous to me because a huge part of the audience for LMK is here because of the animation. It’s not like Ninjago, which started off with low budget 3D and slowly got better and better over time with a few dips here and there. We started off with one of the best 2D animated shows of all time, (in my monkey obsessed opinion,) animated the way it was to draw in an audience, and suddenly for no reason at all and no prior warning we’ve dropped down to what every pilot of every puppet animation children show looks like these days. It feels like a crummy thing to do. Yes, I’m aware we’re lucky we still have a show, yes I’m grateful we still have the same VA’s and the same writers. But this is a big and abrupt change and I’d be lying if I said it didn’t suck.

Okay, onto my biggest concern: how the writing of the show will pair with this new animation.

With all due respect and love to the writers, Monkie Kid is awful when it comes to biased narration in their storytelling. It has relied so so heavily on visual storytelling to fill in the gaps and tell us what’s actually going on while the dialogue is lying to our face. If you’re not looking, it can lead you to woefully misunderstand the characters and what is happening. It’s a style of writing that I’m not a super big fan of, BUT I, for the most part (aside from fandom craziness,) enjoyed it! Because the animation helped it hold up. What made the storytelling work was the nuance and incredible detail in Flying Bark’s animation. You could analyze every expression, every style difference in flashbacks, and it would tell you so much; I am a SUCKER for that kind of stuff--drawing expressions and emotions is something I love so much--and Flying Bark served it to me on a silver platter with a golden spoon and crystal clear mountain water. The scope of what Flying Bark was able to do… I just don’t know if it can be replicated in puppet animation and that scares me a bit storytelling wise. Because I don’t want to be stressed out by Monkie Kid and unreliable narrators have a habit of stressing me out. It’s not to bad as long as it’s resolved later, but Monkie Kid has a habit of blowing over things, especially in regards to the lies told about Wukong and the only thing that tells us something different happened are the visuals, which stresses me out cause it results in INTENSE fandom bashing my favorite monkey and it’s really hard to avoid. (This is why I stepped back so far from interacting with the fandom.) I don’t want something that brought me comfort in my darkest times to be twisted into something I no longer want to see.

Is this the worst possible thing to have happened? No, of course not. It’s definitely not all that awesome either. For me it’s like eating at a gourmet restaurant having their insane mac n cheese every day for years and then suddenly you’re served KD from the dollar store and told you should be grateful because it could be worse, all the while the restaurant keeps its gourmet title. There’s nothing wrong with KD but bro I want my mac n cheese--

The fact that there was no prior warning is what really makes all this feel so sucky. I know this isn’t the end of monkie kid, but the animation is one of the biggest things that made the show unique, it’s what drew so many incredible artists in, it’s what inspired me to create and make friends and keep living. The animation provided nuance to the characters when the writing sometimes fell flat. It gave insights and information that worked well with the face-paced storytelling and brought the incredible voice acting to life. It’s not really going to be the same without it.

There is ofc more than just the animation that made monkie kid great. The voice actors, the SOUNDTRACK, the sound effects are all off the charts insanely high quality but man. It’s not complete without it. There’s a big ol’ gaping hole in the show and in my heart and as much as I love the show, that’s really rough. Because it’s not as though this makes things better. The quality didn’t drop because people wanted it to be easier for animators to animate, Wildbrain I’m sure is having a time meeting LEGO’s crazy deadlines right now, just like Flying Bark did. There was so much reused animation in season 4 because of how hard LEGO was riding animators' tails and pushing them to get things out faster and faster and I was more than alright with the reused animation so the animators could catch a break. But instead of backing off and being respectful of the time it takes to animate, LEGO dropped Flying Bark like a hot potato and immediately went to the cheaper, faster puppet animation. (JUST A THEORY/VENT DON’T QUOTE ME.) It’s not like there aren’t other 2D animation studios out there but they picked the puppet. And that SUCKS. I would have been okay waiting another year for monkie kid easy because Flying Bark is WORTH IT. I understand how long things take and that if I want a high quality product its going to take skill and time. It hurts me to watch animators having it rough because no one else seems to get that.

Alright in conclusion: We’ve only seen a few seconds of the trailer.

It’s hard to judge what the entire show will look like based off of that little. It could be incomplete, Wildbrain could get better, they could find their groove, I ain’t gonna rag on the animation because it’s giving you exactly the quality--maybe even higher--expected of what it is. It’s puppet animation. I dunno what to tell you man. But it’s not about that for me. For me it’s about 2D. It’s about some of the greatest animation I’ve ever seen being replaced when it didn’t need to be and that sucks. Flying Bark gave us the world and we didn’t lose that for any reason other than money and greed and impatience. That is so discouraging and upsetting. It is something else to go from every frame leaving me breathless and staring and in awe over the quality of the animation to Puppet Animation. The change hurts. Honestly, I never thought I would be as devastated as I am. I’ve processed a bit but I think it’s always going to suck because of how important monkie kid has become to me. I miss flying bark so much already. I’m still going to try and watch the show, but we’ll see how my brain does with the puppet animation. Don’t go ragging on the animators, guys, they’re doing their best and I gotta respect em.

I do wish we’d gotten more time to mourn flying bark’s absence. I wish people had gotten a heads up when season 4 had ended so they could have time to adjust and then get ready for the new style, because watching everyone hype themselves up for flying barks’ animation only to be told they're gone by a trailer kiiiinda sucks. But I digress.

I do find it funny it took changing animation studios for us to finally get a trailer and poster on time before the eps drop. So in a way, I appreciate that much of a warning at least. Better than nothing! And we’ve always wanted a trailer out first lol HGLKJSDF

I ain’t even gonna pretend I ain’t spoiled as HECK by flying bark’s animation. Honestly without it, I don’t know if I’d be as attached to the characters as I am. Real talk, I don’t know if I ever would have even watched Monkie Kid without it. I’m gonna miss flying bark with all I have in me and it's going to make rewatching and enjoying the show hard because of all this. I’m going to miss the time when every part of this show was a comfort to my brain and soul. Flying Bark's energy is unmatched, they bring a life to things that I haven’t seen anywhere else and I’m always gonna be grateful for the time I had with them animating Monkie Kid.

This is it. No more more Flying Bark monkie kid. The end. And that’s going to sting for a while. And probably keep stinging throughout the new season because… well… I love monkie kid. So seeing it become something else is going to hurt, especially if you hold it so close to your heart.

These new animators are doing their best and we can’t fault em for that. It ain’t their fault the animation industry is what it is. It’s great we still have the show going when so many other things have gotten canceled but the fact the bar is so low can hurt like heck too.

We’re gonna miss flying bark for a long time. It’s so goofy that something as simple as animation could have burrowed so deep into our hearts but it has and that’s truly wondrous and the magic of storytelling. I love shows. I love movies. I love what monkie kid was, and I hope I can learn to be okay with what it will be now. (Even with my ‘STRAIGHTEN THE PICTURE’ brain screaming at me lol.) Wishing you all the best, don’t make fun of the animation needlessly or go after the animators, be kind to them and to each other. If you wanna be salty don't send it to me just make ur own post thanks ima drop this and then go try some positivity lol. Until next time! I’ll see you in Monkie Kid season 5

Knox out

#aint no way im putting this in the main tag #knox rambles #comeback kid #monkie kid salt #salt #not sure how to tag this ITS A LONG ONE BOYS #i had 3k worth of thoghts built up #you can see where i get more RAAA emotions lol #its out we good #i think that'll be it for me for salt about the animation change #unless the season comes out and its wild #salt about writing may show up now that flying barks outta here we'll see i like to keep things light but eh #HOPE Y'ALL HAVING AS A GOOD A DAY AS U CAN #boi did i ramble HDJFJJGG #i do watch puppet animation shows from time to time but i have always wondered what they would look like in 2D gods #the three caballeros show is one of em i desperately wanted 2d of |;A;/#okay im outta here gotta get ready to go getting out of rhe house this evening PEACE #it is a bit of a vent so #vent #hdjfjjgg ALRIGHT SKIDADDLIN

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elcucurucho · 7 months ago

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obviously you can do whatever you want but there’s nothing that immediately turns me off a piece of fan content faster than a complete refusal to engage with the source material

#discourse #this is why the whole guapo verse whatever is so deeply stupid to me. sorry #‘I love these characters but I don’t support the media’ ok well the characters exist in the context of the media #you remove that context you remove a core part of the characterization and you’re left with a sock puppet of a character #aesthetic without any of the traits that made them interesting to begin with.#if the original media is so untouchably bad then why? how would you fix it? there’s a lot of ways to engage with problematic media #other than just pretending it doesn’t exist.#I try not to post about discourse for my own sanity but there’s nothing I hate more than fandom decontextualizing characters #ESPECIALLY when people try to act morally superior for ignoring canon.#in the kindest possible way. if the source is really that untouchable consider looking into different media.

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kustas · 3 months ago

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I recently witnessed someone on twitter with the spicy but interesting position of: the only people vehemently bitching against 2D puppets are the animators who have to use them. So, what's the tea, why's this debate even a thing, and is one side wrong?

Rigged 2D animation, also known as puppet animation, and prolly other terms I'm not aware of. Most 2D animators I know treat it with disdain as something they're forced to work on to survive instead of "real" animation (=hand drawn in this case), and while I've encountered less negative sentiments towards the medium coming from fans, I have seen several people complain about it unknowingly, correctly nailing visual aspects they don't like without knowing their cause. Additionally, it can be really hard to tell apart what's rigged and what's hand drawn in 2D, with many series mixing both to their advantage.

The reason for rigged stuff being so prevalent is that it's cheaper and faster. Where hand drawn requires redrawing your entire character/thing frame by frame to make it move, puppet animation uses, well, puppets, ready-made articulated models you just need to pose. It's also possible to use interpolation - instead of deciding by hand every image between two poses, you let the computer calculate it and come later to tweak how each part moves to make it look good. There is little to no drawing involved in rigged 2D, asides of rare shots that need a little part drawn over when the puppet can't do something specific, or drawing the eyes/mouths/hands/etc when you're making the puppets themselves. Notice I said series and not films in my previous paragraph - this is because animations with longer runtimes and/or shorter production times benefit strongly from this medium. You will not need to clean, to inbetween, to color and whatever other steps can go in hand drawn 2D when you have puppets. You can use the interpolations to your advantage on some movements. It's near impossible to be off model. You don't even need to draw!

And most animators uh, they're here because they like to draw. You can say animating and drawing are two different things, that is true, I've even heard it from the mouth of an insanely talented hand drawn animator called Liane-Cho Han who described himself as a poor drawer despite an impressive 2D portfolio. Poor drawer, good animator, it blew my mind at the time but when I started animating I understood what he meant. But puppet animation is still animation, and much closer to how 3D animation works, with stop-motion being comparable to hand drawn in terms of difference between these mediums. Yet you don't see industry-spanning bitching about 3D vs stop motion! This leads to my next point: puppets are limiting.

One of the advantages of hand drawn animation compared with other animation techniques especially those using character rigs is that you're not limited to said rigs. You can just draw anything, regardless of digital puppet constraints, of art style, of physics. If you can put it on paper, you can animate it. Puppets, both 3D and 2D, have limitations - the art needs to be made (sculpt, drawings) and be placed on a complex invisible digital skeleton allowing you to correctly manipulate your character, which is a job in itself. The more stuff you want your character to be able to do, the more complex it gets. You can't automate all of it. This means productions with lower budget and/or ambitions will tend to have simpler rigs which allow less. An example is angles: when you're hand drawing a character and want to pose them, you can pick whatever angle you'd like for all body parts. Rigs might not give this as an option, especially subtler angles of the head and foreshortening. This might make some movements you had in mind impossible, with a need to stylize your poses and your breakdowns. Not being able to have these angles can make for animation that looks stiff or awkward and can be very annoying to work with depending on the animator.

That artificial stiffness is to me, one of the telling signs something is rigged, and part of the reasons I don't like it myself! That's right, I'm with the haters here. Except stiffness doesn't necessarily mean something used digital rigs, and stiffness isn't inherently a bad thing - as with all art styles, it can just be that, a stylistic choice. Enters a director who's work I'll use as a counter example to the dislike of 2D puppets, both from an animator's and a hater layman's point of view on the results: Michel Ocelot.

Famous in France and way less internationally, two staples of his work are his fixations on fairytales and Africa. Fittingly, his most famous movie is probably Kirikou, a feature film which mixes both. Ocelot's work is stylized in a way unique to him, which can make his work very repetitive, but also makes it instantly recognizable. Some of his staples include static shot compositions, actors that talk like they're reading their lines out of an old book, busy backgrounds and folk tale tropes. Stiffness is just a part of what his movies look like, as are art styles that take inspiration from traditional art and past periods. He started out working before digital puppets were a thing, and while he's embraced digital techniques, releasing a full CG feature film in the 00s before it was the norm, he has worked without, including on Kirikou which is animated the old way.

The earliest of his films I've seen is called Princes and Princesses, it's already got everything typical of his work, and one of the latest of his films I've seen (and among my personal favorites of everything he's done) is called Black Pharaoh, and while decades and different techniques separate these two, they're both based around, you guessed it, puppets. P&P is a blatant hommage/reference to animation pioneer Lotte Reiniger, who used literal paper puppets to animate fantasy movies who's style is very reminiscent of the graceful, slightly simplified illustrations popular at the time. Black Pharaoh uses digital 2D puppets and is entirely animated using the (meticulously researched) style of ancient egyptian wall paintings. Both of these films tell a story, not like movies usually do, but like an orator retelling a tale does. And it works! The characters don't move in a 3D space, but it doesn't matter, they're from a fresco or are paper. The character's don't move realistically and it doesn't matter either, they're not trying to trick your eyes into looking real, they're characters of a story. Ocelot's films are a case where using puppets and their limitations works in favor of the film, not otherwise, and his stuff that's not made with puppets looks like it could be.

I'll briefly talk about a film I hate here to make the final point before my conclusion, netflix's Klaus. This is a film who's insanely impressive animation has floored people regardless of how much they know about animating. Unlike a lot of "this looks very cool" (actually p easy to make) animations you see going viral online, here everyone's right, it is indeed insanely hard to animate like that. Klaus was hailed because of it's uncanny ability to look like modern CG while being entirely hand drawn, which I think is stupid, because it's a lot of effort and talent wasted for a result that looks incredibly generic. Would this film have been bad if it had used CG? Why do people think hand drawn is better than CG in the first place? That I can't answer but the reason studios use it is money: either because it's trendy and will make more money because it's trendy, or because it's cheaper to make, which depends on what you're trying to achieve. In the end, they're techniques. Techniques have pros and cons and things they're better at than others. Time and money are essential to producing a film wether you like it or not.

So: are people wrong to hate on puppets? Nah, it's a question of taste. You can hate the look a technique gives and that's fine. But "ugly" is subjective and it's important to be aware of that if critiquing stuff is your job.

Was that tweet right? Yeah, pretty much, lol. For many if not most animators it's a technique they're forced to use, that removes a major reason they like their job from said job, and can be frustrating to work with. It's worth noting a lot of the work you'll get nowadays is on cheap productions, and the techniques they'll use most will be associated with the slop they are. Doesn't mean you'll inherently make slop. A technique is just that, a technique.

#might add pictures/links if theres interest #animation #mine #i almost made a short film that would have strongly benefited from puppets and ironically one of the reasons i did not do it is.#because idk how to use that technique and it just wouldn't have been as good to animate without!#the cheap look can be a style too: see - of all things - south fucking park #u can hate that show but its look is iconic and it stems from having a 3 peanuts budget and embracing that

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ninjagirlstar5 · 2 months ago

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So, uh, I might've gone a little crazy last week and came up with a Kanade Concept rewrite. (And made some redesigns of IRL!Kanade and IRL!Hibiki to reflect that.)

SO, for context, if you've been following me for awhile (or just came across some of my posts in the past), you'd know that my friend and I have been playing through SDRA2 for fun and it's around the end of Chapter 3 that I started making posts mentioning certain segments of our reactions, feelings, and some jokes. And to say we hated it would be an understatement. But I've had asks where I went on a rant about Chapter 3 more than once, so I won't repeat myself here. If anyone hasn't seen that, you can find it here, and here.

At this point, we're at Chapter 6 and during one of our after stream chats in VC, my friend, @bittersweetbeet, suddenly brought up an idea that could've tied Kanade (and thus Chapter 3) into the main plot and that was this:

"What if Kanade was blessed with Divine Luck from Utsuro like Void? Like, she wasn't in on the plan, but the reason why everything went south for her is because her luck was running out and got screwed over in the trial because of that, and was more than willing to die because she'd prefer that over losing her Fortune. It wouldn't fix Chapter 3, but at least it'd explain how she got away with all those damn murders for so long!"

I'm kinda paraphrasing here since I don't remember the exact wording due to this idea being brought up in the voice channel. But that was essentially what they said and it drove me NUTS at the time. After all, it's been brought up that Utsuro tended to bless a bunch of kids that were the same/similar age as him during his travels out of boredom, and while we don't know a lot about Kanade and Hibiki's parents to know for certain if they were bad and good (personally, I interpret them as decent people but tended to play favorites with Hibiki and accidentally neglecting Kanade, which only worsens their issues even when they try to bring them together), we DO know that Hibiki tends to bully Kanade a lot and that alone can make for a difficult childhood even when you have parents that care about you. So, with a bit of timeline adjusting, Kanade coming across Utsuro when she was, ahem, down on her luck, and getting blessed by him after she vents about her problems can make sense as this is something he's done for awhile now. And it should be noted that not every kid he blessed with Fortune had the same level of dire straits, as many had different levels of Fortune which faded away at different paces. It's why Void lasted for as long as they did since their situation was the worst of the worst so their Fortunes faded away much slower while others either succumbed to fates sooner or lost their fortunes and survived but couldn't handle being back in the same state they tried so desperately to escape from that they just...well, you know. Not every person that was blessed with Divine Luck was going to be a good person or, hell, some people can end up getting worse with the Fortunes they were blessed with instead of becoming better (like Mikado). And so, we started chatting ourselves up about this idea and I really wanted to share it here on Tumblr that I asked if it was alright if I shared it on my blog and they gave me the go ahead. I didn't share it right away, but I was thinking over how to word the post while I was at work. Which is when I realize there were...a few problems with this idea, unfortunately. Mainly this since I brought it up in our rambles channel in the Discord server to get my buddy's thoughts on it, so I'm just gonna copy and paste that:

"...I've been trying to figure out how to word the idea of Kanade being blessed by Divine Luck and I kinda realized something: how would Kanade realize her luck is fading…when she's not a part of Void? Like, she's not in on the plan from the very start so she's been reverted to a [place] where she believes that she's fine and her luck is still running strong. And how that would be conveyed to the audience…

Like, I can believe Kanade could figure it out, even if I think how the writer LINUJ showed off her intelligence to be stupid, but I'm struggling [on] how to explain how she'd figure out that she ran out of luck? She'd be surprised that things have turned on her suddenly due to her state of being reverted back to a time where her luck is strong, but would she fully understand the context to the point that she'd rather die with her sister than lose what she already have?"

Like, I could've been overthinking on that. I could've had it so that a character comments that she was just hit with a wave of bad luck and Kanade goes, "Me? The most luckiest person ever? Never! (...unless-)" But I was really struggling to come up with an answer I was satisfied with at the time and even Bertie was like, "it's stuff like this that makes it so that the only option that would fix Chapter 3 is by rewriting the whole thing." Which is something I do agree with. This idea wasn't a complete fix to everything that's wrong with Chapter 3 anyways, especially when it comes to Kanade and how the writing on her character just sank it into the depths of hell. It was simply an explanation we both really liked.

And then Bertie went on to say, and I quote, "Tbh I think it would be more interesting if Kanade hated Hibiki deeply rather than love her. It’d be cliche probably but it’s better than the weird incest-like shit we have going on here" end quote.

And I started off with a normal response agreeing and elaborating on the idea, like so:

"HONESTLY, yeah. It's better to just scrap the whole chapter and rewrite it from the ground up.

And yeah, I do agree that anything that's different than what we got in Canon is probably much much better. Although I would still want to keep the nuances of Kanade and Hibiki's status as victims of each other's toxicity. Hibiki is constantly bullying Kanade due to seeing how good Kanade is at a lot of things and is jealous of that but still cares and loves her as a sister even though she sucks at appreciating Kanade for who she is. Meanwhile, Kanade still loves her sister and willingly goes along with her bullying, going as far as to try and be meek and shy to appeal to her sister's dominant but cowardly ways but deep down she resents her for keeping her from doing things she likes even though she does genuinely enjoy spending time with her and gets jealous whenever other people get close cause it means that Hibiki won't bother to spend time with her. She often drives them away one way or another so she can have Hibiki to herself, even when nothing changes because Hibiki is her sister and she just wants her to love her and spend time with her (but not in the gross incest way and we're taking away the whole crazy serial killer thing, she's just her own level of toxic)."

And that's when I started spiraling into an gigantic ramble that lasted nearly an hour and thirty minutes (minus a dinner break) because my brain was in a creative mood that night. Enjoy my copy and pasted ramble (I won't italicize all of this to make it easier on the eyes cause if you know me by now, my writing gets very long + a bit of editing to make it a little more coherent):

"I still like the idea of Kanade being blessed by Divine Luck and being good at many skills because of it, and she's smart enough to realize that the boy she met long ago somehow changed her when she had openly vented to him about her problems the day they met (after giving him her umbrella to protect himself from the pouring rain, as she had ran away on a whim due to being fed up with her parents and her sister [at the time]). She's very grateful for what he's done for her, believing that the skills she now has can bring herself closer to Hibiki by being useful to her."

"But here's the catcher: her blessing doesn't work in the way she had hoped. Because surprise! Divine Luck has it's own set of rules despite being able to break reality as long as the chances aren't zero. Basically, Divine Luck can make you better at anything, get you anything, without having to go through the process of improving or skipping the steps that are needed to get the result, simply jumping to the result itself. However, out of everything it can change, from skills to getting someone shelter to just winning any kind of luck-based event, it cannot change a person's heart. And Kanade, despite having the skills that are "supposed" to bring her closer to her sister, only makes Hibiki even more jealous and she continues to bully her, going as far as to push her workload onto her now that she's so "good" at everything and proclaiming that she's just as good, if not better. Her blessing got her what she wanted but not what she needed in her case, unlike with the rest of Void, and she ends up paralleling Mikado as despite being blessed with Divine Luck, it did not make them better or improve their situation due to their own choices/how they used their blessing (Mikado because he constantly pursued Utsuro to the point committing crime after crime, Kanade because instead of standing up for herself and establishing her boundaries, she continued to support her sister no matter what, something that only ends up building the resentment in her heart). That's not to say that Hibiki isn't instigating most of the abuse, she is. But Kanade isn't making things better as she uses her skills to make herself seem like the better option in comparison to the people Hibiki wants to hang out with and get to know, even going as far as to scare them away to isolate Hibiki so she doesn't even have any options to choose from."

"And then, Chapter 3 rolls around and Hibiki starts to change, trying to be supportive of the group and take charge to help everyone get through the killing game. It…surprises Kanade, but she watches her sister change and grow, becoming more confident, cheerful, kinder…

…And she realizes that she hates it.

She hates the thought of her sister changing. She hates the thought of her being kinder after everything she's done to her. She hates the thought of Hibiki growing closer to these people, becoming attached and happy without her, Kanade, her own sister.

She hates the thought of being left alone again. She hates the thought that Hibiki is going to leave her again.

She hates it, she hates it, she hates it.

She hates her.

But she loves her.

She wants her to be with her, forever.

So why won't she ever look her way?

Why, why, why?

Kanade is spiraling in her head, trying to keep up her shy, sweet side up but gritting her teeth the whole time as she watches. Even when Hibiki is being kinder to her, still making her usual jokes about her but is actually trying to prop her sister up a bit more, it's only because Sora and Setsuka had suggested her to be kinder, not because she wants to. At least, that's what Kanade thinks. She doesn't want to believe her sister is changing for the better, that she's able to change at all, that she's going to leave her behind for other people again.

And when Setsuka tries to reach out to her on the third day…Kanade finally snaps.

She tears into Setsuka, accusing her of stealing her sister away from her, for giving her ideas to be better when she can't, she should never be better than she already is because if she is, she'll just abandon her and leave her all alone. Her stupid, cowardly sister can't ever hope to be on her own, she always has to rely on her, HER, not anyone else…and definitely not SETSUKA!

And before Kanade knew it, she lunges at Setsuka.

The scuffle was short…but the result was predictable."

"To elaborate a little bit more on Setsuka, she's was still pretty distant from the group as she was focused on doing what she needs for Nikei and stuff. But after Hibiki starts to break down a little and reaches out to Setsuka for help, she commits herself to stabilizing the group once more, supporting Hibiki and telling her and everyone else that she has something to tell them. But Kanade, watching this entire scene, only starts to become even more on edge as Hibiki, once again, reaches out to someone else instead of her. Despite trying to "change," Hibiki had so easily broken down once more, crying and begging for help, relying on another person for support and to "fix" everything for her. And that convinces Kanade that Hibiki can't change, she won't EVER change, and she bitterly goes to bed. But Setsuka notices Kanade's displeasure and, not knowing why she's unhappy, decides to take matters into her own hands and have a one-on-one talk with her to see if she [can] help. Unfortunately, this decision backfires on her hard, resulting in her own death.

Now, unlike in canon, Kanade panics as this was the first time she's EVER committed a murder before. Sure, she's harassed, blackmailed, and even threatened people that tried to get close to Hibiki before with violence, people that would only take her away from her. But she didn't…she never…she didn't mean to do this! But, no, Setsuka…No, no. Why should she regret this? Why should she apologize?

Setsuka was getting in the way. Setsuka was going steal her sister away.

And Hibki was still the same as she ever was. Not being "better," not ever "changing." She was still Hibiki, the bully, the sister, the bratty, snappy, fussy older sister that demands respect despite her cowardly, weak self. A sister that Kanade deeply loves…and hates."

"But she won't let her die her. She'll escape with her, a certain "ritual" should allow her to escape with her as it's an option for the blackened on the third island according to Monocrow. If she goes through with that, she can escape with her sister…and make sure she'll never change again.

But if she loses…then she'll die. She'll die…

…and she'll take Hibiki with her. For she doesn't deserve to live without her.

Kanade goes through with the ritual as fast as she could, relying on her skills (and thus her luck) to succeed in framing Hibiki and nearly gets away with it.

But, unbeknownst to her due to her current memories, Kanade's luck has been dwindling and since her situation wasn't as dire as Void's, hers has been fading away far faster than them. And ends up making a few mistakes that seem innocent enough until it all starts to pile up, with one last conclusive evidence fucking her over and revealing her to be the true culprit.

Kanade is seething when she's caught, her ego bruised and lamenting how the hell she lost, with Syobai dryly stating that her luck has run out. Kanade laughs, saying that can't be true. She's always been lucky! She's always been able to get things her way, even when she has no friends outside of Hibiki. This tips both Mikado and Nikei off that, hey, wait a minute, is she…? Of course, neither of them speak up on it due to keeping their own plans close to their chest. Everyone asks her why, why did she do it, with Hibiki grabbing her sister, begging her why she would do something like this, why would Kanade frame her of her best friend's death? A death that she caused?

And Kanade, after years of bottling up her own resentment…finally blows up at Hibiki."

"She tells her off for her bullying, of her neglecting to pay attention or spend any time with her unless she wanted something from her, and pushing all the things she doesn't want to do onto her. She proclaims that she had ALWAYS hated everything she's done to Kanade, wishing she could've done anything else, wishing that, for once in their goddamn lives, that they did something she wanted to do, not because Hibiki had chosen it. All Kanade had ever wanted was her love and affection, but she never appreciated her or all the things she's done for her. [She even went] as far to change herself to try and appeal to her sister and her wants and needs. And yet…despite everything, she still loves her. She loves the times when they would dress up together. She loves the times when they would perform together. She loves it when Hibiki actually cares for her. She loves her, because she's her sister…

And because Setsuka was getting in the way of that, she had to get rid of her. Just like everyone else…!

Everyone freezes when Kanade admits that out loud. She pauses when she realized what she said, but instead of apologizing [or even denying it], she doubles down. She admits that she drove away their childhood friend, she admits to spreading false rumors about their teacher and getting him fired, she admits to falsifying a hurtful rejection to a guy Hibiki was getting close to and pretended to be her so that she can ruin their chances of getting together when he finally confessed, she harrassed, blackmailed, threatened people that got close…and Setsuka was just another person on a long list of those that got in the way. She just…didn't mean to kill her. It just…happened. But Kanade…doesn't care about that. She doesn't care about anything anymore. It's apparent that her luck ran out…and now she's going to die.

But she's not dying alone. She refuses to die alone.

[After all, they're] sisters, right…? It's only right that they stay together till the bitter end, right?"

"Hibiki tries to back away, but Kanade grabs her just as Monocrow drags her into her execution, bringing her with them."

"The execution goes almost exactly the same but Kanade is doing her damndest to make sure Hibiki dies with her, with Hibiki trying to escape. And it seems like it was going to happen…until Hibiki beats the hell out of her with a microphone, crying and wailing for all the people Kanade had hurt in her name, demanding why, why, why. Kanade can only answer this:

"It was ALL for you. You and you alone."'

"Hibiki drops the microphone, backing away from the sister that was so possessive of her, in her hatred and love.

And then she runs away, leaving Kanade all alone.

Monocrow doesn't stop her, for this execution was only made for Kanade…and seeing her despair as she finally loses the one thing she had tried so hard to grasp onto slip away from her was enough for him to pull the lever, the platform underneath Kanade falling and killing her.

By the time Hibiki has made it back to the trial grounds, her gait is slow and unsteady, hugging herself as she stares down at her feet, processing what had just happened. What her sister had done. What she had done to everyone she knew. What she had done to Setsuka and Hibiki herself.

Why she had done it.

She had done it for her.

She had done it to keep Hibiki to herself.

She had done it because she both loved and hated Hibiki.

And the people that had been hurt because of Kanade…was because of her. Because of Hibiki. Because of all her bullying and her selfish wants, and because she didn't treat her like she should've treated her as a sister…! Because she's a horrible, awful person that hurt her own family until it was too late, her best friend dead, her sister, dead! All because of her…!!

Hibiki falls to her knees, going into dissociation as everything that she ever thought she knew and was normal shattered like glass."

"Hibiki, for the rest of the killing game, blames herself for what Kanade has done, but with Sora and co.'s help, she's able to rationalize that yes, what she did to Kanade was horrible and none of this may have happened if Hibiki had just bonded with her sister instead of bullying her…but Kanade had also made her own decisions, alienating Hibiki's friends and support from her to try and isolate her so she can try and force her to rely on her and her alone. Hibiki had done a lot of wrong that she probably can't ever make up now that Kanade is dead, but that doesn't excuse the awful actions Kanade has done either as many people were hurt from her own actions, one even losing his job and others probably traumatized from what she did to them. They were both toxic to each other and so long as neither of them were changing, that cycle was only going to continue until something broke between them…and this just so happened to be it. It's just horrible that it also ended in Setsuka's death alongside Kanade's, who was just as much a victim as she was a perpetrator."

"As for the reveal in Chapter 6, I was thinking of two options for Hibiki and Kanade's relationship:

The two of them, despite years [of] staying together as sisters and as a part of Melody Rhythm, only ended up falling apart as their toxicity turned their head as one of Kanade's past victims, their childhood friend, decides to finally come out and reveal everything Kanade has done to her and other people, even providing evidence of what she did. And the moment Hibiki found out about it, a public argument breaks out between them and Kanade finally spills out everything about her feelings on Hibiki, which only hurts both of them as Kanade had tried so hard to isolate Hibiki from other people while Hibiki had only hurt and bully her sister out of jealousy for years. But this? This was enough for Hibiki to stand up and go, "We're done here." And she leaves, cutting ties with Kanade for the shit she's done to others but also left reeling at the revelation of what her bullying and abuse had done to her sister. Was this…her fault? She wasn't sure. But she knew [she] had to make things right somehow, even if it's only for herself, reflecting on her behavior and reaching out to those that were hurt by Kanade, apologizing for everything that had happened even though it wasn't her fault that she chose to do the things she did and tried to make it up to them…if they want her, at least. [Meanwhile,] Kanade is PISSED that her sister left her, who went as far as to block her from her phone and even ending their contract as Melody Rhythm as she's left to deal with the fallout of the media bashing her for what she's done…but as time went on, Kanade is able to pick up the pieces and strikes out on her own, telling herself that she doesn't need Hibiki or the people that criticizes her for what she's done. She can do this by herself! She never openly apologizes, but she never says outright that she's happy with how things had turned out either, despite getting her career back on track…eventually."

"And then the Tragedy happens, they lose their parents, and one of two things happen.

Either 1.) the Tragedy brings them back together, with them starting off very reluctantly working together to do charities to help those in need, only to slowly and carefully rebuild their relationship while trying very hard not to fall back into bad habits as Hibiki admits that yeah, she's done a lot of horrible things to Kanade and she IS sorry for that…but she won't let Kanade hurt anyone anymore. She's trying very hard to be patient with her sister, as they know the Tragedy is a horrible thing to go through, they even lost their parents from it…but if they want to make things work, then something has to change between them, even if Hibiki is the only one taking the initiative FOR the change. Kanade is very reluctant to admit that she was EVER in the wrong for what she did…but as they continue work and bicker over the concerts they put together, their different ideas colliding but somehow coming together with the help of their coordinator, they start to…actually bond again. They start to talk things out, Hibiki is actually trying to show interest in her hobbies and the things she likes, and while she can never bring herself to like the same things she does, she's trying to be respectful and give her the time of day this time. She's trying to make things right for her, so long as Kanade never does the things she did again. And while Kanade doesn't like the same things Hibiki does, it's still a bond Hibiki is trying to nurture…and it makes Kanade question if what she did was ever necessary, that if she had just stood her ground, let Hibiki form her own relationships while searching for her own friends that she can rely [on] like the ones she had now…then maybe none of this would have happen. Maybe they could've remain as sisters, forever, if she just accepted their differences and tried to break away and do her own thing, while letting Hibiki grow as a person [as I think if Hibiki was allowed to bond with other people, she would've grew out of her bullying and become a better person, but because she never had the chance or had people that would stand up to her and let her experience the consequences of her own actions, she never grew out of that mindset as she was never put in her place before]…

[And then the killing game happens, reverts them back to their teenage selves, and they start their toxic cycle all over again until one of them literally kills and gets executed for it.]"

"Or 2.), Kanade and Hibiki remain separate, as not even the Tragedy and the death of their own parents can bring them together. Their parents funeral, one they tried to arrange anyways, only escalates into another argument, with Hibiki changing as a person…but Kanade did not. She still feels entitled to be Hibiki's one and only sister, her one and only support, and Hibiki recognizes that, deciding that it was safer that they stay separated as she NEVER wants to risk anyone else she loves coming to harm thanks to Kanade. The two part ways, with the both of them doing their own separate charity events, with Hibiki proclaiming that Kanade Otonokoji is not her sister, [not anymore], while Kanade proclaims that Hibiki Otonokoji will always be her sister, and refuses to acknowledge the fact that she had been disowned and will continue to be disowned for the rest of their lives."

"Either way, Hibiki is depressed to realize that their future together was never forever, and Hibiki had lost her sister…one way or another."

And that's it! That's the concept rewrite, plus the sprite edits since Kanade and Hibiki are no longer together as sisters and as a band outside of the Neo World Program, so their appearances reflect on that as they pursue their own solo careers. They're no longer trying to match each other, and Kanade pursues her own rock and metal music.

Oh, and while I was copying and pasting this, I had an idea that Kanade's relationship with Sora could be interesting as she's the only one that Kanade is actually okay with getting close to Hibiki...because Sora shows interests in both of them in their FTEs. She talks to Hibiki in private about her treatment of Kanade and even asked Kanade herself if she was okay as she genuinely cares about her just as much as she cares about Hibiki. This surprises Kanade as no one has ever bothered to look her way before, they always pay more attention to Hibiki than herself. And Sora makes it clear that she's genuine about this, asking her if there's anything she can do to make things better for Kanade when Hibiki is defensive about her actions. It makes Kanade feel...seen, for once in her life, and she actually likes that. So she allows Sora to get close, so long as she promises to continue being her friend, too. It's why Sora succeeds in befriending both twins while Setsuka ended up getting rejected by Kanade in the worse possible way: Setsuka unintentionally added to Kanade's insecurities by focusing mostly on Hibiki and overlooked Kanade's needs as well. She's not doing this out of ill-will, far from it. It's just that she recognized that Hibiki is a little weaker in her mental strength and her breakdowns were far easier to notice while Kanade was able to keep a cool head most of the time. So Setsuka prioritizes on supporting Hibiki first and foremost, thinking that Kanade can handle herself fine on her own. She's not completely wrong...but she's not right, either. By the time she finally notices that Kanade is hurting and reaches out to support her, it's already too late as she's finally reached her breaking point and snapped, which resulted in her own death. Just a little something to tie this whole thing off.

#SDRA2 #Kanade Otonokoji #Hibiki Otonokoji #Super Danganronpa Another 2 #SDRA2 Spoilers #sprite edit #Star's Art #look I won't pretend that people like canon!Kanade can't exist - me and my friend both know that #the problem is what's the POINT in making Kanade into a serial killer that's turning her sister into a puppet that it serves the narrative?#Is it meant to be foreshadowing and how that's exactly what's happening to Yuki - so he can be broken down and be replaced with Utsuro?#if so then it's not done very well since it's barely touched upon - let alone never ever called back to it ONCE - to be proper foreshadowin #And it even costed a character her own development for the sake of a twist that's nothing more than shock value - losing what could've been #-a really good character/concept in the process #and the reason why Hibiki's arc up to that point was so effective was BECAUSE she's done bad things and mistreated her sister so often #it gave us a reason to see her grow as a person because she's immature and flawed. this arc would have not worked if Hibiki was softer-#-or kinder at the start. And we just...lost that before it could develop even further.#so my approach was basically take out all the serial killer BS (and heavily implied incest) and tone down a fuck ton of Kanade's actions #She's still a toxic person but has been hiding her awful behavior for years in an attempt to keep her sister tied down to her #and just not excusing any of Hibiki's past actions or Kanade's own actions either

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